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 Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 4:32:21 PM
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((((((Friends)))))))
I would be very interested in hearing your opinions and views regarding Kabbalah (Kabbalah Centre). There has been some controversy over it very recently in newspapers and on whether it is a 'cult'. I have attended some classes in the last few months out of curiosity to hear a different perspective on spiritual teachings. A friend of mine told me about the centre and said she found the concepts taught interesting and felt that they had benefitted her in her day to day life. I did ask her initially about whether she had been put under any pressure to give part of her income to the centre as I had heard there was mention of having to give 10% away. I also asked her whether she felt obliged to do things she felt uncomfortable with, such as attend very long lectures (with no food or water etc) or told that she should distance herself from friends and family not involved with the centre etc. I felt my friend was being honest with me and she said that this was not what she experienced and if anything you were encouraged to not isolate yourself.
My personal experience (so far) has been that I find the classes interesting. Classes are about an hour and a half long and are over a period of 10 weeks (once a week) Concepts spoken about are probably very similar to what we talk about here and there is an emphasis to try and look at the bigger picture, in that there are sometimes more than 1 way to solve a problem or look at an issue from as many perspectives as you can before drawing conclusions (something I tend to do anyway). Courses are paid for but is probably on a similar par to attending attending some other class or lecture. (around £12 per class).
I would not call myself a devotee of Kabbalah and I certainly challenge some of the views taught. There are some areas I personally find a bit sketchy, ie. The centre teaches about scanning(running your eyes over aramaic texts) parts of the Zohar (Jewish book of teachings) as a way of absorbing part of its positive energy .
Also they sell bottled water which is claimed to be energised by meditations etc..
I am very sceptical over these areas, although the Centre does say to try it first and see
if you experience positive outcomes. Of course there is the power of the mind to consider and having faith in something can produce this sort of positive effect too.
There have also been accusations of inproper financial handlings. ( I know people do give voluntary donations to the centre). I also believe that in large organisations like this that there is a potential for corruption, spiritual or not. However, it is also possible to have some genuine people involved who do have your good interests at heart.
Therefore at what point would you consider an organisation like this to be showing cult like tendencies and to become very wary of continuing to be involved
This is a dilemma that I am aware that I should always potentially acknowledge.
All thoughts and opinions would be very welcome
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GuidingLight
Site Owner & Spiritual Medium
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Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 11:30:12 PM
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(((((((ck)))))) my only real opinion is that I think there is some truth in all beliefs and religions, and I feel its a case sorting the wheat from chaff so to speak, take what you need that you feel is of benefit to you and discard what you feel isn't beneficial or what you don't really believe with out any kind of evidence.
This one good thing about spiritualism there is a lot of evidence to back up theories of what's real and what isn't so to speak, although I cant say I've studied other regions/beliefs in depth enough to look for any evidence of what they teach so I cant really comment.
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Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 11:33:48 PM
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Hello ck1,
In your particular case I would like to think and indeed I feel that you will under no circumstances allow yourself to be seduced into something that do's not feel right to you.
I do though fully appreciate there are tho's of a more gullible nature.
A Dear departed GrandMother of my Wife was somehow embroiled in the Mormon Faith. I don't fully know the circumstances. I do know that after a while she wanted to go back to C of E .
She was visited on many occasions by representatives of the Mormon church and being old and vulnerable felt she was being bullied in some way.
This situation was remedied fortunately with the use of one of her burley Sons.
Who politely asked the Mormon folk to go pay a visit on their own behalf to a taxidermist.
The Dear old Lady passed and despite threats of eternal Coal shoveling from the Mormon folk was buried and found Peace in her original Faith.
(She is fine as I have said hello to her since).
The Reverend Jimmy Jones and the Waco Seige are thankfully exeptions.
I think if you keep an objective mind and as you say are prepared to question certain doctrines and teachings you should be fine.
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Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 12:13:32 AM
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Thank you ((((((GL))))))) and ((((((((Neville))))))) for your thoughts and advice.
quote:This situation was remedied fortunately with the use of one of her burley Sons.
Who politely asked the Mormon folk to go pay a visit on their own behalf to a taxidermist |
I do believe it is important to remain objective in any beliefs you approach, although I am aware of the potential to be seduced, even subtly and the thought of visions of myself in 'a happy, clappy brigade'  was enough to get me worrying a little more!
As GL rightly said quote:| its a case sorting the wheat from chaff |
There are some concepts which I find interesting, although I do try and remain sceptical (open minded) in other areas. I have noticed there are some students that seem to buy out the whole Kabbalah shop, spending significant amouts on the bottled (blessed) water and volumes of the zohar (which are pretty expensive). However no one has put any pressure on me to part with significant amounts of my income or time yet
I believe there is a documentary about the centre next week, which is supposed to expose some corruption, so I will be giving it a view in regards to looking at 'the bigger picture'!
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Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 2:38:04 PM
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Don't have a lot a time for any kind of organised religion.
People who i have seen get involved in various kinds always do so when at a low ebb emotionally and to me are grasping at straws.
My opinion don't say it is right.
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GuidingLight
Site Owner & Spiritual Medium
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Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 2:46:19 PM
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quote:| Don't have a lot a time for any kind of organised religion. Originally posted by lowrider - 10 Jan 2005 : 2:38:04 PM |
(((((lowrider)))))) but isn't any religion organised in some way when you look at it, even Christianity, that was all started by a group and a man called Jesus, probably one of the earliest recorded cults (spellcheck) in a way, they were going around telling people about god and how they should join them and be a follower, that's what most cults are today really.
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Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 3:29:40 PM
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Hi (((((Lowrider))))))
The Kabbalah centre advertises itself as more spiritual philosphies, although there is a very grey area in which philosophies actually becomes much more religious in its content. It is a fine line also to where a religion then becomes a cult, in that you are indoctrinated to believe that there is only one truth and it belongs to that particular belief. My own reasons for going along initially was out of curiosity to hear another side to this debate, although as GL put it; quote:| I think there is some truth in all beliefs and religions |
I feel fortunate that I am not a particularly needy person and feel happy with my personal life. I do however have an extremely inquisitive nature and question a lot of things around me. I am also prepared to be questioned and I feel this is an important aspect of taking in a balanced view, not just based on one opinion.
It has been very interesting to watch how others can become fixated to a belief without questioning why they are doing what they do. There was an article recently about alleged financial mishandling and also on the conduct of the centre towards its volunteers. I spoke to a few students about this, and was surprised to almost see them sweep everything under the carpet. It was as if they could not handle the possibility that there could be corruption or mistreatment like this occuring. I find this a little worrying myself, and if facts emerge that this is indeed the case I shall be very wary in future of how this group is conducting itself.
This would not be unusual, in that any organisation can fall prey to these things, however it is a little sad, when a group is based around spiritual teaching, is then not being accountable and open to its beliefs.
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Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 4:19:38 PM
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GL I agree ,most religion is organised which is why i avoid it like the plague.
At church i have to play along if i want to give and receive readings.
I would be happier with a method of development that does not have some element of religion.
Many times i have asked why spiritualism which i thought was a movement to prove that life carries on has so much religion around it.
Sorry but i have found that most,not all very religious people simply need a crutch.
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Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 5:25:34 PM
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On a personal thought, it is sometimes difficult to develop, having no faith in mind to what you are doing, as there is an element of trusting what you sometimes cannot fully prove or even understand. There is experience, but there can also be doubt, so it is faith that keeps you looking for the truth(s). Is this faith therefore a form of religion even if it is only personal to you? I was brought up with no particular religion or church and therefore I am also not a Christian, Jewish etc.(although I believe Jesus and some of the other recorded teachers did exist and seemed to be extraordinary people)
My mother is Japanese and has a Buddhist/Shinto background, and although there may be influences in these aspects of her culture, she has not to my knowledge been religious in my upbringing. My father has no beliefs as far as I am aware, but is pretty open minded about any possibility!
Therefore, it does seem quite difficult to avoid religion/belief altogether in terms of developing. I suppose, as long as you are flexible in your beliefs based on open minded opinions and experience, it prevents you from believing in a blinkered form of religion
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Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 07:57:37 AM
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Oh i do have faith in a greater being,the great spirit, god whatever title suits.
But i just cannot understand why i must go somewhere to pray,be told by someone how i must live my life.Plus in some cases support the church with cash.
I will live my life to the standards of values that i feel happy with,may not suit everyone but that is why everyone must chose.
Sorry again but you see and hear of so much dishonesty among clergy and fire and brimstone church goers that i will make my mind up on who i think has lessons for me.
Not some bishop or any other human.
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Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 08:47:09 AM
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I agree (((((Lowrider)))) that you do not need to go to a church to be a Spiritual being or a person with 'honest' values I think any church or organisation like this is accountable for its actions and should be open to criticisms over any controversy and hypocrisy. Although as we know, many are not and will hold firm onto a particular belief with no room for any flexibility or evidence to back up its claims. This is when it comes down to yourself to try and make the best informed decision you can, in regards to whether these places are right for you.
I am questioning the motives of some of the controversy coming from the Kabbalah centre, and find this a good lesson in which to make sure my awareness is open as much as possible.
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Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 08:53:21 AM
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Just a thought!
We carry our faith within us. So why do we need anywhere to go to work within that faith? If it is to meet like minded souls and gain some kind of perspective on our own faith through the experiences of others that might possibly point to a need to be a part of a collective.
Neville
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Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 1:13:28 PM
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ck1,i agree we do seem to have strayed from your original post.
As to cults i think it is a grey area and in some cases maybe you can't tell its a cult till its to late.
After re-reading your post to refresh myself i feel that they are boarding on cilt status.
As you say there are good people involved and it is a very trendy movement at the moment but with any large group with lots of money floating around and no control then human nature means there always is the option of self gain and control creeping in.
You seem a strong willed person willing to question issues,not eveyone is or can be.
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Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 2:55:58 PM
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Thank you GL, Neville and Lowrider for contributing to this thread. It has really helped me to keep my feet on the ground and appreciate what an outside perspective can do to make me understand my own motives and intentions.
I am strong willed, but under certain circumstances, it is always possible to be influenced subconsciously, something I will be more cautious of in the future
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Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 11:50:15 AM
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| Just for anyone interested in further research on this matter there is a programme on BBC2 tonight,Thursday at 9.50 on this subject.
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Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 4:24:20 PM
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| Should be interesting...Thank you (((((((Lowrider)))))))
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